by Juan Tolentino
Okay, gents, let's play nice, now...
Though I do have my view regarding this entire debate, I shall begin with an epigram: Bring me the Proust of the Papuans, and I shall be happy to read him.
Granted, I do not consider myself quite as well grounded in the political tradition of the Dominion as most of the fine bloggers here. As a very obviously non-white immigrant, I sometimes wonder whether I have a "real" stake in the history of my adopted country. Yet, on further thought, does this really matter? Does my Oriental origin or my youth or my newness to this land mean that I am entitled to a lesser consideration, to a lesser share of the bounty of history and tradition that has served us so well over the years? The obvious answer, as was made painfully clear to me, is no, and I will tell you why.
I am a monarchist. I have come to believe that the institution of constitutional monarchy is a fine system under which to be ruled and governed. Granted, it is not perfect, but no human institution, however grand, is ever perfect, and if we were to set perfection as the standard for the management of our affairs, then we would have no government at all, but I digress. What is important is how someone like myself, a young brown fellow from the Philippines, could so easily adopt, and so firmly believe, in the majesty of the British Crown. Thus, I believe that J.J. is entirely wrong to suppose that monarchy is an essentially ethnocentric affair.
Yet, I still hold an attachment to my home country. Even if I were many oceans away, I would still have that same sentiment I've always had, that I am a proud Filipino. I am proud to have come from that amazing little archipelago where the mangoes are always ripe (try them sometime) and the people are always friendly. Yet, to love my country of birth it would be incongruous to glaze over the truth, that despite our association with America, the Philippines does not have the political and social impact of other, "whiter" nations, but I'm perfectly fine with that. I do not love the Philippines because she is lavished with praise and attention. I love her because she is the Philippines, the facts of the matter be damned.
Returning upon the main road, it would seem wise to consider again the question: what exactly is so "white" about Britishness? Does being a certain colour or race prohibit me from appreciating the traditions of this country? Does having a certain ethnicity make my sentiment a fleeting spectacle, a luscious dream of doom? Nay, I say, and nay again. The proud Britannic culture is the right of all who profess their loyalty, their appreciation and love, towards the realm that gives them their livelihood and their life. We are all British by our shared connection to the past. You are British. I am British.
I first loved the Philippines, but now I also love Canada, and I love the Crown. Call it sentiment, if you will. Call it foolishness, or illogical, or what have you. I would not flinch, for it is all true. My attachment to the Crown is not something defined solely by words or declared by treatise, nor is it bound by human convention or legal instrument. It is simply there, either to be accepted or rejected, and I have chosen to accept.
I have seen how this question has divided many of us here who are otherwise civil and respectful persons. I do sorely wish that this come to an end, for it not fitting that we would live in the free country, a freedom purchased by the blood of those before us and secured by ties that bind, ties that stretch back generations, should so squander it with name-calling and ad hominem. Certainly, there must be merit to both sides of the argument, as there is always is among those who truly seek the truth. To J.J. and his republican friends, I encourage them to read through the earlier posts, for having read them I find no hint of malice or ill-will towards people of colour or transplantation, only a proud celebration of Anglo culture and history and a dismay at those who would wish it away. To my fellow monarchists, I say: let us not the sun set on us. To the Canadians, I say let us remember that erstwhile Republic, though fickle, a sister from the same Mother. We Britons shall never be slaves, and least of all to our passions.
God be with you all.
- Elizabeth our Prince -
- Churchill our Patron -
- Salisbury our Prime Minister -
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On the quality of magnificence, a gentleman does not count the cost. - Aristotle
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What weight of ancient witness can prevail, if private judgement hold the public scale?
- John Dryden.
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What weight of ancient witness can prevail, if private judgement hold the public scale?
- John Dryden.
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What weight of ancient witness can prevail, if private judgement hold the public scale?
- John Dryden.
- LANDED GENTRY -
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To horse and away To the heart of the fray! Fling care to the Devil for one merry day!
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Scottish Countryside Alliance
Countryside Alliance Ireland
Masters of Foxhounds U.K.
Masters of Foxhounds N.A.
Masters of Harriers and Beagles
The Montreal Hunt Club (*)
Hunting and Conservation
Guards Polo Club
Calcutta Polo Club
The Hurlingham Club
Hurlingham Polo Association
Prince of Wales Stakes
Queen's Plate
ROYAL ASCOT
Henley Royal Regatta
THE BOAT RACE
Oxford and Cambridge Cup
Henley Boat Races
The English country gentleman galloping after a fox — the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable. - Oscar Wilde
Fox Hunting
Countryside Alliance
Scottish Countryside Alliance
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Masters of Foxhounds U.K.
Masters of Foxhounds N.A.
Masters of Harriers and Beagles
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Hunting and Conservation
Guards Polo Club
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Hurlingham Polo Association
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Queen's Plate
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THE BOAT RACE
Oxford and Cambridge Cup
Henley Boat Races
The English country gentleman galloping after a fox — the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable. - Oscar Wilde
English Pubs
THE PUBLIC HOUSE (1) (2)
The Royal Standard
The Queen Victoria
Old King's Head
The King's Arms
The Rose and Crown
The George and Dragon
James Joyce Pub
THE RED LION
O'Neills Irish Pub
The Marquis of Granby
The Duke of Cambridge
The Duke of Richmond
The Duke of Wellington
The Brunswick Inn
The Earl of Derby
The Elephant and Castle
The Bull and Bush
Dew Drop Inn ("do drop in")
The Goat and Compass
The Cat and Fiddle
The Cock and Bull
The Bag o'Nails
The Anglesea Arms
The Fox and Hounds
The Innholders' Company
The Moon Under Water
Up and down the King's Highway, In and out the Eagle, That’s the way the money goes, Pop! goes the weasel.
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The Queen Victoria
Old King's Head
The King's Arms
The Rose and Crown
The George and Dragon
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THE RED LION
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The Marquis of Granby
The Duke of Cambridge
The Duke of Richmond
The Duke of Wellington
The Brunswick Inn
The Earl of Derby
The Elephant and Castle
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Dew Drop Inn ("do drop in")
The Goat and Compass
The Cat and Fiddle
The Cock and Bull
The Bag o'Nails
The Anglesea Arms
The Fox and Hounds
The Innholders' Company
The Moon Under Water
Up and down the King's Highway, In and out the Eagle, That’s the way the money goes, Pop! goes the weasel.
- LORD OF THE BLOG -
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I can make a lord, but only God can make a gentleman. - King James I
Peers of the Realm
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Duke of Fife (1900)
Duke of Argyll (1892)
Duke of Gordon (1876)
Duke of Westminster (1874)
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Duke of Sutherland (1833)
Duke of Wellington (1814)
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Duke of Montrose (1707)
Duke of Roxburghe (1707)
Duke of Atholl (1703)
Duke of Rutland (1703)
Duke of Marlborough (1702)
Duke of Argyll (1701)
Duke of Bedford (1694)
Duke of Devonshire (1694)
Duke of St Albans (1684)
Duke of Queensberry (1684)
Duke of Beaufort (1682)
Duke of Richmond (1675)
Duke of Grafton (1675)
Duke of Buccleuch (1663)
Duke of Hamilton (1643)
Duke of Lennox (1581)
Duke of Somerset (1547)
Duke of Norfolk (1483)
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Nobility is a graceful ornament to the civil order. It is the Corinthian capital of polished society. - Edmund Burke
Barons of the Press
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Majesty Magazine
The Salisbury Review
The New Criterion
The Scotsman
The Times
The Australian
The Telegraph...Blogs
National Review...Corner
The Spectator...CoffeeHouse
The Chap Magazine NEW!
Savile Row Style
Arts & Letters Daily
Burke's Peerage and Gentry
The American Conservative
New English Review
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Victoria Times Colonist
Chronicles Magazine
Punch
Baronage
The Herald
Marlborough Express
Western Standard RIP
Taki's Magazine
The Brussels Journal
VDARE.COM
Globe and Mail
STUFF.CO.NZ
New York Sun RIP
Dominion Post
National Post
Quadrant Magazine
Macleans Magazine
Nelson Mail
Defence News
Gilbert Magazine
The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures. - Junius
(motto of the Globe and Mail)
Blogs of the Order
LORDS OF THE BLOG
An Englishman's Castle
Albion's Seedlings
The Blogging Tories
Tory Diary
Kiwi Blog
A Pint of Unionist Lite
Irish Elk
Tory Heaven
Bring Back The British Empire
The Daily Bayonet
The Dominion Institute Blog
Adam Smith Institute Blog
The Witanagemot Club
Very British Subjects
Occam's Carbuncle
The Liberty Papers
The Commonwealth Realm
The Prince of Darkness
Kiwi Examiner
Our Kingdom
England Expects
Captain's Quarters
Tory Historian
Lord Kitchener's Own
The English Crusade
The British North America Blog
In the name of God, go!
100 Years Ago Today
The Anglo Saxon Chronicle
Wilson Revolution Unplugged
The Salisbury Pages
The Lord Protector
Canterbury Tales
Geoffrey Chaucer Hath a Blog
Sir Robert Bond Papers
Kiwi Pundit
My Flanders Fields
Veritas
Brit Blog
The Crusader
Burkean Canuck
Arthur's Seat
Chesterton and Friends
Lord Feverstone
Freedom and Whisky
Old Whig's Brain Dump
The Torch
Officer's Club
Guy Fawkes' Blog
Armavirumque
Mild Colonial Boy
Tommy English
Kingdom of Chaos
Alfred the OK
Postmodern Conservative
This royal throne of kings, this sceptr'd isle/This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars/This other Eden, demi-paradise...This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England... - William Shakespeare
An Englishman's Castle
Albion's Seedlings
The Blogging Tories
Tory Diary
Kiwi Blog
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Irish Elk
Tory Heaven
Bring Back The British Empire
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The Dominion Institute Blog
Adam Smith Institute Blog
The Witanagemot Club
Very British Subjects
Occam's Carbuncle
The Liberty Papers
The Commonwealth Realm
The Prince of Darkness
Kiwi Examiner
Our Kingdom
England Expects
Captain's Quarters
Tory Historian
Lord Kitchener's Own
The English Crusade
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In the name of God, go!
100 Years Ago Today
The Anglo Saxon Chronicle
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The Salisbury Pages
The Lord Protector
Canterbury Tales
Geoffrey Chaucer Hath a Blog
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Kiwi Pundit
My Flanders Fields
Veritas
Brit Blog
The Crusader
Burkean Canuck
Arthur's Seat
Chesterton and Friends
Lord Feverstone
Freedom and Whisky
Old Whig's Brain Dump
The Torch
Officer's Club
Guy Fawkes' Blog
Armavirumque
Mild Colonial Boy
Tommy English
Kingdom of Chaos
Alfred the OK
Postmodern Conservative
This royal throne of kings, this sceptr'd isle/This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars/This other Eden, demi-paradise...This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England... - William Shakespeare
Lords of the Manor
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Scotland's Holyroodhouse
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COUNTRY HOUSE
Guild of Professional Butlers
The National Trust
The National Trust for Scotland
Arundel Castle (Norfolk)
Edinburgh Castle
Hatley Castle (Dunsmuir)
Harewood House
Inveraray Castle (Argyll)
Castle Howard
CASA LOMA
Chatsworth House (Devonshire)
Glamis Castle (Strathmore)
Blenheim Palace (Marlborough)
Leeds Castle (Tudor)
Spencer House
Dundurn Castle
Longleat House (Bath)
Wollaton Hall
Hardwick Hall (Devonshire)
Hatfield House (Salisbury)
Burghley House
Craigdarroch Castle
Woburn Abbey
Warwick Castle
Wilton House
Beaulieu Abbey
Bowood House
Chiswick House
Holkham Hall
Lost Heritage
A man's home is his castle.
- Sir Edward Coke, 1581
- THE GENTLEMAN -
Gentlemen Tailors
LONDON SAVILE ROW
Gieves & Hawkes ...Military
Companions of Savile Row
Ede & Ravenscroft ...Robes
Savile Row Style Magazine
J. Barbour & Sons ...Tweeds
Beau Brummell
James Lock ...Hatters
Dandyism.Net
Fulton Umbrellas ...Umbrellas
Swaine Adeney Brigg ...Canes
Lord Whimsy
Anello & Davide ...Shoes
IL DANDY
SPINK (est. 1666) ...Collectors
The Dandy
Dege & Skinner ...Tailors
The Walpole ...Luxury
Henry Poole ...Livery
The Burgon Society
Kinloch Anderson ...Hosiery
Anderson & Sheppard
Savile Row Bespoke
Fashion fades, style is forever.
- Yves St. Laurent
Gieves & Hawkes ...Military
Companions of Savile Row
Ede & Ravenscroft ...Robes
Savile Row Style Magazine
J. Barbour & Sons ...Tweeds
Beau Brummell
James Lock ...Hatters
Dandyism.Net
Fulton Umbrellas ...Umbrellas
Swaine Adeney Brigg ...Canes
Lord Whimsy
Anello & Davide ...Shoes
IL DANDY
SPINK (est. 1666) ...Collectors
The Dandy
Dege & Skinner ...Tailors
The Walpole ...Luxury
Henry Poole ...Livery
The Burgon Society
Kinloch Anderson ...Hosiery
Anderson & Sheppard
Savile Row Bespoke
Fashion fades, style is forever.
- Yves St. Laurent
Gentlemen Clubs
GENTLEMEN'S CLUB (*)
White's/Brooks's/Boodle's
Royal Air Force Club
The Caledonian Club
Naval and Military Club
Naval and Military Club
Cavalry and Guards Club
Metropolitan Club
The Rideau Club
The Travellers Club
Oxford and Cambridge Club
Leander Rowing Club
Yale Club of New York
Harvard Club of New York
Princeton Club of New York
The Garrick Club
The Australian Club
Athenaeum Club
The National Club
The Carlton Club
The Commonwealth Club
The Bullingdon Club
Conservative Monday Club
The Albany Club
Union Jack Club
Victory Services Club
The Union Club
The Commonwealth Club
The Savage Club
The California Club
The Weld Club
The Reform Club
Royal Military Colleges Club
The Handlebar Club
The Pipe Club of London
Boisdale Jazz & Cigar Club
It would be better that ten unobjectionable men be excluded than one terrible bore be admitted. - Garrick Club's motto
White's/Brooks's/Boodle's
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The Caledonian Club
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Naval and Military Club
Cavalry and Guards Club
Metropolitan Club
The Rideau Club
The Travellers Club
Oxford and Cambridge Club
Leander Rowing Club
Yale Club of New York
Harvard Club of New York
Princeton Club of New York
The Garrick Club
The Australian Club
Athenaeum Club
The National Club
The Carlton Club
The Commonwealth Club
The Bullingdon Club
Conservative Monday Club
The Albany Club
Union Jack Club
Victory Services Club
The Union Club
The Commonwealth Club
The Savage Club
The California Club
The Weld Club
The Reform Club
Royal Military Colleges Club
The Handlebar Club
The Pipe Club of London
Boisdale Jazz & Cigar Club
It would be better that ten unobjectionable men be excluded than one terrible bore be admitted. - Garrick Club's motto
Gentlemen Spirits
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Drambuie Scotch Liqueur
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Anyone for Pimm's?
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Korbel California
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LONDON DRY GIN:
Gin & Tonic
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Boodle's British Gin
Gordon's Dry Gin
New Amsterdam Straight Gin
Hendrick's Gin
Broker's Gin
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London Beefeater Gin
Bulldog
SCOTCH & WHISKY:
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Crown Royal
"Gentleman Jack"
The Famous Grouse
Glenfiddich Single Malt
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Balvenie Single Malt
Wiser's Canadian Whisky
Chivas Regal Blended
Jim Beam Kentucky Bourbon
Cutty Sark Blended
Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey
Drambuie Scotch Liqueur
John Dewar & Sons
I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. - Winston Churchill
Gentlemen-at-Arms
GENTLEMAN
Gerald Warner
Roger Scruton
Mark Steyn
Daniel Larison
Simon Heffer
Andrew Bolt
Andrew Roberts
Kevin Myers
Daniel Hannan, M.E.P.
Lew Rockwell
John Derbyshire
John Fox
Peter Brimelow
Andrew Cusack
Kathy Shaidle
Peggy Noonan
John O'Sullivan
David Flint
Theodore Dalrymple
David Warren
Boris Johnson, Lord Mayor
Taki Theodoracopulos
Michael Gove, M.P.
Tim Blair
Nigel Farage, M.E.P.
Rex Murphy
George Will
Jim Hopkins
Peter Hitchens
Andrew Coyne
Tim Worstall
George Jonas
William Rees-Mogg
Tom Utley son of Peter Utley
William Gairdner
Keith Windschuttle
Roger Kimball
Iain Dale
James Bowman
Colby Cosh
John Redwood, M.P.
There is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents.
- Thomas Jefferson
Gerald Warner
Roger Scruton
Mark Steyn
Daniel Larison
Simon Heffer
Andrew Bolt
Andrew Roberts
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Daniel Hannan, M.E.P.
Lew Rockwell
John Derbyshire
John Fox
Peter Brimelow
Andrew Cusack
Kathy Shaidle
Peggy Noonan
John O'Sullivan
David Flint
Theodore Dalrymple
David Warren
Boris Johnson, Lord Mayor
Taki Theodoracopulos
Michael Gove, M.P.
Tim Blair
Nigel Farage, M.E.P.
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FREE MOVEMENT BETWEEN THE REALMS?
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On Democracy and Kings: Why I am a monarchist.
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Kingdom of Bhutan: The Greatest Nation on Earth
Monday, March 5, 2007
Bring me the Proust of the Papuans
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Monarchy can easily be debunked, but watch the faces, mark well the debunkers. These are the men whose taproot in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire mere equality they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison - C.S. Lewis
British Monarchy
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Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.
- William Shakespeare
Royal Family
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They would never leave without me, I would never leave without the King, and the King would never leave. - Queen Mother, 1940
Monarchist Leagues
MONARCHY.NET
Canadian Royal Heritage Trust
Diamond Jubilee Trust Australia
British Monarchist League
Monarchist League of Canada
Australian Monarchist League
Monarchy New Zealand
British Monarchist Society
SA Monarchist Society
Monarchy Wales
American Monarchist League
Orange Lodge of Ireland
Orange Lodge of Canada
Orange Lodge of England
Orange Lodge of Australia
Loyal Orange Institution
Orange Historical Site
For Constitutional Monarchy
Junior Lodge of Ireland
Society of United Royalists
Monarchist Society of America
Royal Over-Seas League
The Victoria League
There is something behind the throne greater than the King himself.
- William Pitt the Elder
Canadian Royal Heritage Trust
Diamond Jubilee Trust Australia
British Monarchist League
Monarchist League of Canada
Australian Monarchist League
Monarchy New Zealand
British Monarchist Society
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American Monarchist League
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Orange Lodge of Canada
Orange Lodge of England
Orange Lodge of Australia
Loyal Orange Institution
Orange Historical Site
For Constitutional Monarchy
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Society of United Royalists
Monarchist Society of America
Royal Over-Seas League
The Victoria League
There is something behind the throne greater than the King himself.
- William Pitt the Elder
- DEFENDER OF THE FAITH -
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The character of Kings is sacred; their persons are inviolable; they are the anointed of the Lord, if not with sacred oil, at least by virtue of their office. Their power is broad - based upon the Will of God, and not on the shifting sands of the people's will. They will be spoken of with becoming reverence, instead of being in public estimation fitting butts for all foul tongues. It becomes a sacrilege to violate their persons, and every indignity offered to them in word or act, becomes an indignity offered to God Himself. - Archbishop John Healy
The Sacred Crown
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Jewel House, Tower of London
The Stone of Scone (847 A.D.)
King Edward's Chair (1296)
Crown of Scotland (1540)
St. Edward's Crown (1661)
Mary Modena's Crown (1661)
Sceptre with the Cross (1661)
Sceptre with the Dove (1661)
The Sovereign's Orb (1661)
Sword of Mercy (Curtana)
Sword of Offering (1820)
George IV State Diadem (1820)
Coronation Ring (1831)
Imperial Crown of India (1911)
Imperial State Crown (1937)
Gold Armills and Royal Robe
Colobium Sindonis
Royal Regalia
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Here lies an anachronism, in the vague expectation of eternity. - 'Lord Peter'
Queen's Coronation
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Archbishop: Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the Peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, ...and of your Possessions and other Territories to any of them belonging or pertaining, according to their respective laws and customs?
Queen: I solemnly promise so to do.
Pomp and State
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Great Officers of State
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Edinburgh Military Tattoo
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Canadian Military Tattoo
Australian Federation Tattoo
Virginia International Tattoo
Birmingham Military Tattoo
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If your job is to leaven ordinary lives with elevating spectacle, be elevating or be gone. - George F. Will
- FOUNT OF JUSTICE -
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And in choosing to leave the selection of their head of state to this most common denominator in the world - the accident of birth - Canadians implicitly proclaim their faith in human equality; their hope for the triumph of nature over political manoeuvre, over financial and social interest; for the victory of the human person.
- Jacques Monet
The Queen's Bench
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Justices of the Peace
King's Court (Curia Regis)
Her Majesty's Courts Service
Royal Courts of Justice
Magna Carta Society
Constitution Society
English Common Law
Unwritten Constitution
The Liberty Papers
British House of Lords
Supreme Court of Canada
High Court of Australia
High Court of New Zealand
King's Bench Prison
Queen's Bench Bar Assn.
Crown Attorney
Crown Prosecutor
Tower of London
The Old Bailey
Without authority there is no liberty. Freedom is doomed to destruction at every turn, unless there is a recognized right to freedom. And if there are rights, there is an authority to which we appeal for them.
- G. K. Chesterton
King's Colleges
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University of Oxford (1167)
Westminster School (1179)
University of Cambridge (1209)
Winchester College (1382)
University St. Andrews (1410)
ETON COLLEGE (1440)
University of Glasgow (1451)
King's College, Aberdeen (1495)
Saint Paul's School (1509)
Shrewsbury School (1552)
Merchant Taylors' School (1561)
Rugby School (1567)
Harrow School (1572)
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Charterhouse School (1611)
Harvard University (1636)
College William & Mary (1693)
Yale University (1701)
Princeton University (1746)
King's College, Columbia (1754)
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King's College London (1829)
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King's College School (1829)
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Queensland University (1909)
Gordonstoun (1933)
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Oxford gave the world marmalade and a manner, Cambridge science and a sausage
- CROWN-IN-PARLIAMENT -
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Above the ebb and flow of party strife, the rise and fall of ministries, and individuals, the changes of public opinion or public fortune, the British Monarchy presides, ancient, calm and supreme within its function, over all the treasures that have been saved from the past and all the glories we write in the annals of our country. - Winston Churchill
Her Majesty's Government
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Her Majesty's Privy Council
Queen's Privy Council
Federal Executive Council
Executive Council of N.Z.
Her Majesty's Government
Westminster Cabinet
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Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition
Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition
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Chief Government Whip
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The Dismissal of 1975
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The attitude of successive governments towards the monarchy is that of the urchin, secretly urinating on some shrub in the hope that it will die. - Peter Brimelow
Westminster Parliaments
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The Westminster System
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Parliamentary Privilege
Unparliamentary Language
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Anglo-Saxon Witenagemot (650)
The Model Parliament (1295)
U.K. Parliament (1801)
New Zealand Parliament (1852)
Parliament of Canada (1867)
Parliament of Australia (1901)
British House of Lords
Gentleman Usher of Black Rod
British House of Commons
Speaker of the House (1377)
Sergeant-at-Arms
(Let's Not) Elect The Lords
For an English Parliament
Scottish Parliament
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As nature’s ties decay
As duty, love, and honour fail to sway,
Fictitious bonds, the bonds of wealth and law,
Still gather strength, and force unwilling awe.
- Oliver Goldsmith
Hansard Societies
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U.K. Hansard
CAN Hansard
AUS Hansard
NZ Hansard
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Scotland Hansard
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Isle of Man Hansard
Jersey Hansard
British Columbia Hansard
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. - Edward R. Murrow
Orders of Chivalry
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Military Knights of Windsor
Noble Order of the Garter
Ancient Order of the Thistle
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Order of St. Michael & St. George
The Order of Canada
The Order of Australia
The Order of New Zealand
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New Zealand Order of Merit
Order of Military Merit
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Order of the British Empire
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Order of Australia Association
Distinguished Service Order
Merit of the Police Forces
Companions of Honour
Society of Knights Bachelor
Knight Bachelor
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...in a nation of gallant men, in a nation of men of honour, and of cavaliers! I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards, to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone; that of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded, and the glory of Europe is extinguished forever. - Edmund Burke
Victoria Cross
VICTORIA CROSS
For Valour: The Monarchist
Canadian Victoria Cross
Anzac Victoria Cross
The Victoria Cross Society
History of the Victoria Cross
Canadian Recipients of the VC
Australian Winners of the VC
New Zealand Recipients
Victoria Cross at Sea
Imperial War Museum VCs
Victoria Cross Heroes
BRITISH MEDALS
Canadian Victoria Cross
New Zealand Cross (Civilian)
George Cross (Civilian)
Cross of Valour (Civilian)
Cross of Valour (Civilian)
Conspicuous Gallantry Cross
Star of Military Valour
Distinguished Service Cross
Distinguished Service Cross
Military Cross
Distinguished Flying Cross
Star of Courage (Civilian)
Star of Courage (Civilian)
Medal of Military Valour
New Zealand Cross (Civilian)
Meritorious Service Cross
Medal of Bravery
The Sacrifice Medal
The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the gallows. - Lord Stamfordham, 1920
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Canadian Victoria Cross
Anzac Victoria Cross
The Victoria Cross Society
History of the Victoria Cross
Canadian Recipients of the VC
Australian Winners of the VC
New Zealand Recipients
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Imperial War Museum VCs
Victoria Cross Heroes
BRITISH MEDALS
Canadian Victoria Cross
New Zealand Cross (Civilian)
George Cross (Civilian)
Cross of Valour (Civilian)
Cross of Valour (Civilian)
Conspicuous Gallantry Cross
Star of Military Valour
Distinguished Service Cross
Distinguished Service Cross
Military Cross
Distinguished Flying Cross
Star of Courage (Civilian)
Star of Courage (Civilian)
Medal of Military Valour
New Zealand Cross (Civilian)
Meritorious Service Cross
Medal of Bravery
The Sacrifice Medal
The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the gallows. - Lord Stamfordham, 1920
- COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF -
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In war, resolution; in defeat, defiance; in victory, magnanimity; in peace, goodwill.
- Sir Winston Churchill, K.G. (1874-1965)
Queen and Armed Forces
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Land Forces of the Empire
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HM Canadian Armed Forces
The Australian Army
The New Zealand Army
Royal Armouries
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Royal Australian Air Force
Royal New Zealand Air Force
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Royal Australian Navy
Royal New Zealand Navy
Her Majesty's Canadian Navy
Her Majesty's Royal Marines
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Digger History (ANZAC)
Wellington's Dispatches
REGIMENTS.ORG
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
- Winston Churchill
Arms and Heraldry
COLLEGE OF ARMS
Court of the Lord Lyon
Canadian Heraldic Authority
Heraldry Australia
Royal Heraldry Society Canada
The Heraldry Society
ALMANACH DE LA COUR
ONLINE GOTHA
Garter Principal King of Arms
Lord Lyon King of Arms
Clarenceux King of Arms
Norroy and Ulster King of Arms
Chief Herald of Canada
Heraldry Wikipedia
HERALDICA.ORG
Nobility and Royalty
Heraldry is the fusion of fact and fancy, myth and manner, romance and reality. It is an exuberant union of family, art, and history.
- Charles Burnett, 1997
Court of the Lord Lyon
Canadian Heraldic Authority
Heraldry Australia
Royal Heraldry Society Canada
The Heraldry Society
ALMANACH DE LA COUR
ONLINE GOTHA
Garter Principal King of Arms
Lord Lyon King of Arms
Clarenceux King of Arms
Norroy and Ulster King of Arms
Chief Herald of Canada
Heraldry Wikipedia
HERALDICA.ORG
Nobility and Royalty
Heraldry is the fusion of fact and fancy, myth and manner, romance and reality. It is an exuberant union of family, art, and history.
- Charles Burnett, 1997
The Admiralty
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The Nelson Society
Nelson's Dispatches
The 1805 Club
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Nelson and His Navy
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Royal Australian Navy
Royal New Zealand Navy
The Great White Fleet
Her Majesty's Canadian Navy
Her Majesty's Royal Marines
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Annapolis Naval Academy
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Royal Roads Military College
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Trafalgar 200th
Admiral Cod
Nelson's Victory
Duty is the great business of a sea officer; all private considerations must give way to it, however painful it may be. - Lord Nelson
Royal Yachts
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It takes 3 years to build a ship, but 300 years to build a tradition.
- Admiral Cunningham, 1941
Ceremonial Guards
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Royal Company of Archers
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Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Military Knights of Windsor
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The King's Troops
The Life Guards
The Blues and Royals
The G-G's Horse Guards
Australia's Federation Guard
The Grenadier Guards
The Canadian Grenadier Guards
The Coldstream Guards
The Scots Guards
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The G-G's Foot Guards
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition: And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day. - William Shakespeare
Cavalry Regiments
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The Life Guards
The Blues and Royals
The G-G's Horse Guards
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1st The Queen's Dragoon Guards
Royal Scots Dragoon Guards
Royal Dragoon Guards
Royal Canadian Dragoons
The British Columbia Dragoons
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Queen's Royal Hussars
Prince of Wales's Royal Lancers
King's Royal Hussars
Royal Canadian Hussars
The Light Dragoons
1st Hussars
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Princess Louise's Hussars
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The Queen's Royal Lancers
Lord Strathcona's Horse
Hunter River Lancers
Royal New South Wales Lancers
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Queensland Mounted Infantry
Queen Alexandra's Mounted
South Australia Mounted Rifles
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Prince of Wales' Light Horse
The Light Horse Regiment
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Le Regiment blinde du Canada
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1st Royal Tank Regiment
2nd Royal Tank Regiment
1st Armoured Regiment
2nd Cavalry Regiment
3rd/4th Cavalry Regiment
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Queen's York Rangers
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Duke of Connaught's Own
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From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. - Thomas Jefferson
- REMEMBRANCE -
War Veterans
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British Ex-Services League
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THE POPPY APPEAL
Royal British Legion
Royal British Legion Scotland
Royal Canadian Legion
Returned Services League
Returned Services Association
The American Legion
Land Forces of the Empire
Grand Army of the Republic
The Earl Haig Fund Scotland
Veterans Affairs Canada
Anzac Day Dawn Service
Western Front Association
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They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.
- Laurence Binyon, For the Fallen
Lest We Forget
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Menin Gate Memorial
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National Vimy Memorial
Thiepval War Memorial
ANZAC War Memorial
The Unknown Warrior
Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
Tomb of the Unknown Warrior
The Cenotaph at Whitehall
Arlington National Cemetary
Tyne Cot War Graves Cemetary
Scottish War Memorial
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Canadian War Memorial
Australian War Memorial
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New Zealand War Memorial
Shot at Dawn Memorial
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Shrine of Remembrance (*)
The Armed Forces Memorial
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National Memorial Arboretum
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British Commando Memorial
Lewis War Memorial
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Korean War Memorial Wall
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Vancouver Victory Square
The Hobart Cenotaph
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Auckland War Memorial
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The Normandy Memorial
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The Hong Kong Cenotaph
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Women of World War II
Peacekeeping Monument
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Their name liveth forevermore.
- Rudyard Kipling, from Ecclesiasticus
Commonwealth Premiers
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Thereupon the people picked a leader nearer to their mood, Churchill, who was at any rate able to grasp that wars are not won without fighting. - George Orwell
Imperial Prime Ministers
Winston Churchill (1951-55)
Ben Chifley (1945-49)
Frank Forde (1945)
Clement Attlee (1945-51)
John Curtin (1941-45)
Arthur Fadden (1941)
Winston Churchill (1940-45)
Peter Fraser (1940-49)
Robert Menzies (1939-41)
Earle Page (1939)
Neville Chamberlain (1937-40)
MacKenzie King (1935-48)
Michael Savage (1935-40)
Stanley Baldwin (1935-37)
Joseph Lyons (1932-39)
Richard Bennett (1930-35)
George Forbes (1930-35)
James Scullin (1929-32)
Ramsay MacDonald (1929-35)
Joseph Ward (1928-30)
MacKenzie King (1926-30)
Arthur Meighen (1926)
Gordon Coates (1925-28)
Francis Bell (1925)
Stanley Baldwin (1924-29)
Stanley Bruce (1923-29)
MacKenzie King (1921-26)
Andrew Bonar Law (1922-23)
Arthur Meighen (1920-21)
David Lloyd George (1916-22)
Billy Hughes (1915-23)
Andrew Fisher (1914-15)
Joseph Cook (1913-14)
William Massey (1912-25)
Thomas Mackenzie (1912)
Robert Borden (1911-20)
Andrew Fisher (1910-13)
Alfred Deakin (1909-10)
Herbert Asquith (1908-16)
Andrew Fisher (1908-09)
Joseph Ward (1906-12)
William Hall-Jones (1906)
Alfred Deakin (1905-08)
Campbell-Bannerman (1905-8)
George Reid (1904-05)
Chris Watson (1904)
Alfred Deakin (1903-04)
Arthur Balfour (1902-05)
Edmund Barton (1901-03)
Wilfred Laurier (1896-1911)
Charles Tupper (1896)
Marquess of Salisbury (1895-02)
Mackenzie Bowell (1894-96)
Earl of Rosebery (1894-95)
Richard Seddon (1893-1906)
John Thompson (1892-94)
William Gladstone (1892-94)
John Ballance (1891-93)
John Caldwell Abbott (1891-92)
Marq. of Salisbury (1886-92)
William Gladstone (1886)
Marquess of Salisbury (1885-86)
Robert Stout (1884-87)
Frederick Whitaker (1882-83)
John Hall (1879-82)
John A. MacDonald (1878-91)
George Edward Grey (1877-79)
Julius Vogel (1876)
Daniel Pollen (1875-76)
William Gladstone (1880-85)
Benjamin Disraeli (1874-80)
Julius Vogel (1873-75)
Alexander Mackenzie (1873-78)
George Waterhouse (1872-73)
William Fox (1869-72)
William Gladstone (1868-74)
Benjamin Disraeli (1868)
John A. MacDonald (1867-73)
Earl of Derby (1866-68)
Edward Stafford (1865-69)
Earl Russell (1865-66)
Frederick Weld (1864-65)
Frederick Whitaker (1863-64)
Alfred Domett (1862-63)
William Fox (1861-62)
Viscount Palmerston (1859-65)
Earl of Derby (1858-59)
Edward Stafford (1856-61)
Henry Sewell (1856)
Viscount Palmerston (1855-58)
Earl of Aberdeen (1852-55)
Earl of Derby (1852)
Earl Russell (1846-52)
Robert Peel (1841-46)
Viscount Melbourne (1835-41)
Robert Peel (1834-35)
Duke of Wellington (1834)
Earl Grey (1830-34)
Duke of Wellington (1828-30)
Viscount Goderich (1827-28)
George Canning (1827)
Earl of Liverpool (1812-27)
Spencer Perceval (1809-12)
Duke of Portland (1807-09)
Lord Grenville (1806-07)
William Pitt (1804-06)
Henry Addington (1801-04)
William Pitt (1783-1801)
Duke of Portland (1783)
Earl of Shelburne (1782-83)
Marquess of Rockingham (1782)
Lord North (1770-82)
Duke of Grafton (1768-70)
Earl of Chatham (1766-68)
Marq. of Rockingham (1765-66)
George Grenville (1763-65)
Earl of Bute (1762-63)
Duke of Newcastle (1757-62)
Duke of Devonshire (1756-57)
Duke of Newcastle (1754-56)
Henry Pelham (1743-54)
Earl of Wilmington (1742-43)
Robert Walpole (1721-42)
RIGHT HONOURABLE
Primus Inter Pares. First Among Equals.
Ben Chifley (1945-49)
Frank Forde (1945)
Clement Attlee (1945-51)
John Curtin (1941-45)
Arthur Fadden (1941)
Winston Churchill (1940-45)
Peter Fraser (1940-49)
Robert Menzies (1939-41)
Earle Page (1939)
Neville Chamberlain (1937-40)
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Michael Savage (1935-40)
Stanley Baldwin (1935-37)
Joseph Lyons (1932-39)
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George Forbes (1930-35)
James Scullin (1929-32)
Ramsay MacDonald (1929-35)
Joseph Ward (1928-30)
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Gordon Coates (1925-28)
Francis Bell (1925)
Stanley Baldwin (1924-29)
Stanley Bruce (1923-29)
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Andrew Bonar Law (1922-23)
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David Lloyd George (1916-22)
Billy Hughes (1915-23)
Andrew Fisher (1914-15)
Joseph Cook (1913-14)
William Massey (1912-25)
Thomas Mackenzie (1912)
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Andrew Fisher (1910-13)
Alfred Deakin (1909-10)
Herbert Asquith (1908-16)
Andrew Fisher (1908-09)
Joseph Ward (1906-12)
William Hall-Jones (1906)
Alfred Deakin (1905-08)
Campbell-Bannerman (1905-8)
George Reid (1904-05)
Chris Watson (1904)
Alfred Deakin (1903-04)
Arthur Balfour (1902-05)
Edmund Barton (1901-03)
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Marquess of Salisbury (1895-02)
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Earl of Rosebery (1894-95)
Richard Seddon (1893-1906)
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William Gladstone (1892-94)
John Ballance (1891-93)
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Marq. of Salisbury (1886-92)
William Gladstone (1886)
Marquess of Salisbury (1885-86)
Robert Stout (1884-87)
Frederick Whitaker (1882-83)
John Hall (1879-82)
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George Edward Grey (1877-79)
Julius Vogel (1876)
Daniel Pollen (1875-76)
William Gladstone (1880-85)
Benjamin Disraeli (1874-80)
Julius Vogel (1873-75)
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George Waterhouse (1872-73)
William Fox (1869-72)
William Gladstone (1868-74)
Benjamin Disraeli (1868)
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Earl of Derby (1866-68)
Edward Stafford (1865-69)
Earl Russell (1865-66)
Frederick Weld (1864-65)
Frederick Whitaker (1863-64)
Alfred Domett (1862-63)
William Fox (1861-62)
Viscount Palmerston (1859-65)
Earl of Derby (1858-59)
Edward Stafford (1856-61)
Henry Sewell (1856)
Viscount Palmerston (1855-58)
Earl of Aberdeen (1852-55)
Earl of Derby (1852)
Earl Russell (1846-52)
Robert Peel (1841-46)
Viscount Melbourne (1835-41)
Robert Peel (1834-35)
Duke of Wellington (1834)
Earl Grey (1830-34)
Duke of Wellington (1828-30)
Viscount Goderich (1827-28)
George Canning (1827)
Earl of Liverpool (1812-27)
Spencer Perceval (1809-12)
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Primus Inter Pares. First Among Equals.
52 comments:
On Canadians killed in WWII
"These were young men to which the label 'British Subject' was simply not applicable."
-Paul Martin Jr.
Sounds like something Prime Minister Paul Martin would say. When did he say that, and could you please provide a source?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/16/citizenship-act.html
I wasn't a fan of Martin (I work with the Conservative Party) but he hit it on the head there.
Thanks. The article errors when it says that the term British subject ended with Canadian citizenship in 1947. Between 1947 and 1977 we were both British subjects and Canadian citizens before British subject was amended to "Commonwealth citizen" by the Citizenship Act, 1977.
You work with the Conservative party? Of Canada?
Who knew they took people like you...
He's no doubt a member of the youth wing. Give the young man time. The Conservatives will make a conservative of him eventually, of that we can hope.
Sorry guys, but almost every Conservative I know in the Party is either apathetic towards the monarchy or outright hostile to it. Especially the old Reform wing of which I belong to.
Troubling. Are there no High Tories left in Canada? I suppose having a Tory party for so long named, hilariously, the Progressive Conservatives, is after all rather indicative (despite a number of their apparent past impulses).
Beaverbrook, if you don't mind me asking, when did you become British?
It seems more than plausible that Spencer ("fontaine") would gravitate towards other republicans. It's also more than plausible that as a person not even into his 20s he'd be associating with other irascible youth. If their ideologies don't change in the future it seems hard to believe they'll go far in a party that elected an openly admitted "proud monarchist" as their leader.
Hahaha. You do not know or understand Harper at all. I've only met the man twice and I know it's hardly a proud monarchist.
I also find it slightly disturbing so many people on here know so much about those who oppose them. My first name for example. I also saw it mentioned a few months ago my joining of the Canadian Forces. Don't do too much digging, it's getting kind of weird.
*he's hardly a proud monarchist
Seems Harper said otherwise in Parliament the other day.
As for your identity, could there possibly be coincidence that you post here as "fontaine" when there was a republican "Spencer Fontaine" on the Monarchist League of Canada board, as well as a republican "SFont" who strongly supports J.J. at Wikipedia as much as he does for J.J. here?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SFont
Seems Harper also more or less ragged on the Queen in a speech to American conservatives back in the 90s. Harper knows how to play people, and ya'll are being played.
Bearhunter, I was born a British subject, a status removed in 1977, but I am not a British citizen. My ancestry is British, however.
James, you can always tell the youngsters, the ones that can't restrain themselves. When they get all antagonistically macho, when they want to "masticate you in debate", but thanks for revealing the identity of our dear Spencer.
Spencer, my boy, Harper is a monarchist, and a Churchillian at that. He may not be a Tory, he may have polished some of his rougher edges, and perhaps has "matured" in power, but he is no republican.
Oh no, he's not a republican, but he's not a monarchist either. Like most Canadians he just doesn't care. You'll note he doesn't use the flowery monarchist line of the Queen or the GG appointing Lieutenant Governors or whomever, and you'll note he acts as the Commander-in-Chief of the Canadian military. He is a practical person, and monarchism does not lend well to pragmatism.
And what identity was revealed? It's not as if he busted my my iron clad disguise. I am posting using my last name, how is that some sort of ruse?
Yet James has certainly pulled the rug from under you. "Active member of political party measures Crown for own head." Shock. Horror. Or are you only measuring on behalf of someone else - because they are paying you to? For surely this is how the modern and "practical" politician thinks, isn't it? "Make men bow down to ME."
You don't even make any sense! What are you even suggesting, that I am seeking power for myself or that someone is paying me to undermine the "power" of the Crown? I hate to break it to you but ultimate power already rests in the hands of the Prime Minister, if I was looking to steal power from anyone it would be from him.
Who said anything about power? I was merely talking about the delusions of grandeur and all the pumped up egos. Politicians are rather like that, haven't you noticed? Come off it. Don't be naive past the age of twenty-one. For surely you aim to get rid of the Crown so that you (or perhaps an ugly politician that you suck up to) can be the centre of attention instead? You do, after all, appear to have taste for being the centre of attention.
I find it odd that none of the above comments appear to refer specifically to Mr. Tolentino's eloquent comment. Thank you, sir, for your inspiring contribution to the discussion.
I don't aspire for anything other than good government in Canada. You may like to blame all of societies ills on politicians, but I'm not so simple minded as to use them as a scapegoat.
Yet that is why the republican cause will ultimately be defeated Fontaine. Those "simple minded" masses like nothing more than to angrily and rightly proportion blame. I think you will find it is called "the trump card". For as you walk into politics the "simple minded" are walking the other way. For politicians are so popular - have you noticed?
In stark contrast a new and younger generation of monarchists are taking to the helm around the world. Modernising and refreshing their arguments but also changing the terms of the debate - making it much more stark for the next generation. A new generation with a modernised message. A new generation that will not pussy foot around. A new generation that will eat your heart and kidneys before breakfast - toasted.
For your cause shall be like dust when we're finished.
You should show me these young monarchists, because I've found none. Unless you mean the kids John Aimers creepily groomed before the revelations about his personal life came out?
My entire experience with young, politically involved people is with the Conservative Party of Canada and all of them are outright republican at best, and apathetic at worst. Like most Canadians most of them simply do not care about the monarchy, they're more pragmatic, and they view government and politicians as a solution rather than a convenient scapegoat.
Yet I was talking about the "millions" of simple minded masses, not the "hundreds" who are just "the politically involved".
The hundreds who are politically involved will one day form political office, and the hundreds who are politically involved are typically a nice cross section of the "simple minded masses". Did you miss the poll were only 5% of Canadians were able to identify the Queen as being our Queen and being our head of state? People do not care!
You sound as if you're proud of that.
I hope you realise it is a terrible cause of shame. And that you are appearing not to be a conservative, but a frivolous, shallow child with no ideals.
Ah, we have an "incorrect" notion of what the country is. Hmm.. Such an assertion would lead me to believe that Spencer is actually a Liberal in disguise - after all, it was always they who took the pompous stance of telling us all what a "real" Canadian was.
Such thinking makes me wonder just what kind of republic Spencer would have us live in.
Trouble is Fontaine such a dramatic constitutional change would need the people's consent. A consent which could only be properly obtained via referendum. It is at this junction that "the hundreds who are politically involved" would be put back in their place by, what you call, the millions upon millions of "simple minded masses".
Scott-
I don't presume to tell anyone what a real Canadian is, I let people make up their minds for themselves what constitutes a real Canadian. I merely view you guys as completely incorrect on the facts of our history, which isn't a matter of opinion it's demonstrable fact.
You're the people who are actively supporting what more or less amounts to a fascist, state before people ideology, so don't accuse me of trying to control people.
Ah, but you see, Neil, this is why the "republican movement" invests so much time and energy in "educating" the simple minded masses on how "undemocratic" living under a monarchy is, what with their propaganda about being kept from independence (read: denied freedom) by an oppressive foreign queen, and all. "Look," they say, "how much more power you simple people will have in this republic we offer you! You can vote for your head of state! You will be free! Rise up!" It's all rather Bolshevik, really. I expect their posters showing the strength of the working man will be on hoarding and lamp-posts soon.
"Bearhunter, I was born a British subject, a status removed in 1977, but I am not a British citizen. My ancestry is British, however"
I do apologise, Beaverbrook, I had not seen the byline atop the post attributing it to Juan Tolentino and assumed (tsk, tsk) that it was by yourself. So I should ask Juan, when did you become British?
I fail to see what the monarchy necessarily has to do with the constitutional imbalances Fontaine perceives (and which, in many respects, I do not doubt; Britain suffers them too). You can historically diagnose the course (and cause) of the problem up till now: a progressively weakening monarchy, a progressively strengthening parliament, but no redrawing of the structure of government to account for these changes and provide for the division of powers originally key to the whole arrangement. Fine. But how does simply knocking the monarchy off, at this stage, automatically follow?
I don't think it follows any more instantly than any other number of ideas. Why not re-strengthen the monarchy? Why not keep the monarchy and reform at the parliamentary level? There are so many interesting solutions we could discuss. I believe the apolitical head of state, and the historical associations and continuity (amongst so much else) that the monarchy provides, are very excellent things indeed. They are great and profound strengths. I suspect Fontaine could concede this. I also believe the Prime Ministerial role has become, in constitutional terms, de facto Presidential, and this, because it collapses two branches of government into one, has potentially severe and very damaging consequences.
But the republican system would merely separate the PM from the legislature (and provide for separate elections), and, having done so, then abolish the monarchy because - ? To get rid of the unique advantages of an apolitical head of state? Because that really helps national unity in America, of course?
Why not separate the PM's office from the legislative branch, bring in a fully elected Senate (or House of Lords), and keep the monarchy as the head of state?
Queen -> Prime Minister -> Majority and Opposition Leaders of the Senate -> Majority and Opposition Leaders of the House of Commons.
Great, surely?
I see James. Yet this is why it is so very important for the generation of younger monarchists to modernise and repackage their arguments and ideals. Present them with new vigour in different ways that will speak direct to our generation - the generation that could decide all this.
I may, in fact, have been replying to 'anonymous' from a different thread. Whoops. But I stand by it.
My opposition to the monarchy isn't really based on any ideological principle, I just see it as pretty much useless in this day and age. A waste of money and something that should get thrown out as we evolve.
I've see many examples of PM Harper publicly supporting the monarchy. Among them:
-The Queen's portrait was replaced in the PMO, which was taken down by the Liberals.
-The Speech from the Throne was the first time in a long time that the GG acknowledged her role as Her Majesty's Representative, and not Head of State (speech written by PMO).
-PM Harper's speech in London where he praised our common British heritage including the institution of the Monarchy.
Oh yeah. I was a Reformer too.
I have a friend who used to work in Martin's PMO and he says he has no idea where that Queen story came from, as he said he saw a picture of the Queen at his time working there. It's the same deal as how the Conservatives claim that the leopard print carpet in 24 Sussex Drive was put there by Aline Chretien, whereas the Liberals claim Mila Mulroney.
On the contrary, your reply insinuates that there is indeed an ideology behind your republican motivations: you clearly believe that a republic is the pinnacle of national evolution. To support this you ascribe to that useless republican argument of "monarchies are old, republics are modern (and ergo more advanced, sophisticated and intelligent)"
Ah, but how history has shown both implicit claims to be untrue. How also your comment has revealed that you have an extremely limited knowledge of the past, which is why, perhaps, you're so quick to dismiss everything from it. But, could it be that you have created your own selective view of what has come before, and dismiss all that weakens your republican passions?
Regardless, what a historically and traditionally impoverished life you would have us all lead in your utilitarian utopia.
Bearhunter, I do believe Juan Tolentino, who dignified us with his beautiful post, is a Canadian who feels British by way of our collective and historical association with that identity. He was not meaning it in the legal national citizenship sense, but in the traditional cultural sense.
You monarchists cannot make a case without resorting to absurd hyperbole. Utilitarian utopia etc.
Seriously though, I really do not care about the monarchy. It doesn't negatively impact us except by wasting a lot of our money. I can do with or without it. It's just that I believe that to fix Canada we need a massive constitutional rewrite and I honestly think the monarchy would not make the cut in a new constitution. A separate executive and legislative branch is what's needed, and a Queen doesn't really fit in there.
A massive constitutional rewrite?
How so? You are aware that you have one of the oldest in the world, aren't you? And that, indeed, your very old constitution derives in many, many ways from the oldest surviving one in the world (namely, Britain's)? One which stretches back to the middle ages?
There isn't a conservative bone in your body, I fear.
P.S. The monarchy actually costs you almost nothing, and if you are worried about government waste (a legitimate conservative concern), I believe there are literally thousands, if not millions, of worse offences to go after first. And I would also suggest that the money the monarchy 'costs' isn't wasted at all.
Conservative and monarchist are not synonymous. Nor can it be said that republican means conservative. The debate is simply this: Does Canada need a foreign head of state or is it time we grew up as a nation and picked our own governance structure. The nonsense of the Queen representing some high ideal is just that nonsense. We as a nation need to set our nation as an ideal then work towards achieving it. The executive branch of government must be separate and accountable from and to the legislative branch. Both branches must be accountable to the people who put them there in the first place and by some strange coincidence foot the bill for all their foolish schemes. In order for that to happen there must be a free and unfettered press who can not be bribed into toeing one party line or another with inducements of political patronage appointments to the Senate or the GG's office.
Being a conservative doesn't mean blindly adhering to things that are old. Hell, in the Gazette today there was a report about how all the old pipes in the city are resulting in lead poisoning in some citizens here. I guess as a good conservative I should oppose the removal of those pipes! Please. I'm afraid you have a very very politically unaware sense of the word.
Onto my point: I recognize the constitution is one of the oldest in the world, hence why it doesn't accurately reflect Canada's present day nature.
I'm a Jeffersonian in that I believe that laws and constitutions should be constantly scrutinized and reviewed, and there are simply no provisions in ours for that. That's on top of the fact that it's a jumbled mess of old pieces of legislation and whatever. Our constitution is more difficult to understand than Bob Dylan reading Finnegans Wake in a wind tunnel. It does not give one an accurate impression of how our country is governed. The Office of the Prime Minister isn't even mentioned for the love of God.
It's dangerous, outdated and in need of replacement. Like the lead pipes.
P.S. the monarchy costs $1.54 per citizen, as per a study conducted by the Monarchist League of Canada. That's 46,200,000 that could be much better spent.
What?! I can hardly cope with that level of disengenuousness.
Your country needs to "grow up"? Your country's constitution is older than France's, Germany's, Italy's, Poland's, Spain's, etc, etc; you are a mature, ancient country, and have much of our ancient, mature country's legacy interwoven with your own. Your metaphor simply doesn't work.
As for fontaine: away with your straw men (lead pipes and all that rot). I never defined conservatism in that way, and you know it. No-one seriously believes it to be "blindly adhering" to old things, and no-one here has ever argued (explicitly or implicitly) for it to be so. That you think we have betrays either a staggering stupidity, or wilful malignance. Go read Burke. Go read Hayek. Slow, tentative, thoughtful, incremental progress - always with an eye to stability - is the sensible watchword of conservatism. The conservative "conserves", he doesn't "preserve". This is why he has no problem with new lead pipes!
You aren't a Jeffersonian if you think you can somehow junk every element of the British constitution and have a massive rewrite. The US Constitution and Declaration of Independence aren't pulled out of thin air by the power of rationality: they are thoughtful, often ingenious progressions of the British constitution.
If you knew your own constitution and had read the Federalist Papers, you wouldn't be blustering about so stupidly.
No country can claim to mature so long as it continues to hide behind the skirts of the head of state of another country. Why has Canada had such a hard time setting its own course in the world? Because like a little child we continue to look somewhere else for our own validation. A mature nation doesn't need to look to the US to feel good about itself A mature nation doesn't need to look to Britian and its calcified class structure to validate the righteousness of its political structure. So long as polititians are able to hide behind a impotent figurehead aka the monarch while they rob the public purse empty that nation shall remain immature.
Being a conservative doesn't mean blindly adhering to things that are old.
No, it means sightedly adhering to things that are old; that is, respecting institutions, repairing and reforming them when necessary, and not being in too much of a hurry to do things like "massive constitutional rewrites". Or do you really need someone to explain to you the difference between a water pipe and a Constitution?
It was a metaphor, man, don't take it literally.
Anyway, scott, I never said I wanted to "junk" every element of the British constitution, but I do support an American-style re-writing our constitution. An evolution if you will. What we have is a piecemeal wreak that is in dire need of fixing. The status quo is simply not acceptable, and the constant attempts to rewrite it by men far smarter and far more serious than you or I can attest to this. The democratic deficit, individual Parliament's lack of power, the Senate, provincial versus federal powers, etc, etc, etc are all things that can be fixed if we take a serious stab at the constitution.
Also, scott, I think we have a nice debating point here. Care to take this to MSN for a more intuitive back and forth?
From the Globe and Mail
"Our Prime Minister (Harper) has a very British-centric approach to the world," Mr. Kirton says. "He's from a Loyalist family; he's a long-term admirer of their system; a loyal Economist reader; his role model was Margaret Thatcher; and he says 'God save the Queen' in speeches.
Sorry, try this link, and click on the first article.
I'd just like to observe that the comment about the throne speech has evolved into something of a monarchist urban myth. The fact that the Queen was explicitly mentioned has nothing to do with Harper's supposedly vigorous monarchism. After Mrs. Jean made the comment I looked at other throne speeches for context, and found that reference to the Queen is always mentioned when:
1) a new GG gives her first speech (as she acknowledges her role as monarchy's representative in Canada)
2) the Queen does something significant (in this case, celebrating her 80th birthday)
If reference is made to the Queen in a throne speech that does not meet any of the above two variables then I will readily concede that this government is indeed different from others. But last year's throne speech gave little reason to convince me.
In fact, if anything it actually gave me some signs of encouragement. Harper ended a tradition that had been in practice since the days of MacDonald and stopped wearing a morning coat and stripped pants to the ceremony- something every PM prior had done. He also did not revive the practice of having the GG refer to "my government"- something the Liberals did away with upon Chretien taking office.
As an irrelevant aside- I think this site would benefit from a formal discussion forum.
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